Charging points and Renault Zoey

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:05 pm

bartmanekul wrote:What insurance group is it?
I don't know... but the great thing about the internet is you can ask which I've done for you via twitter

bartmanekul wrote:MOT - I guess a normal garage can't do it, where and how much would it cost?
This is new technology and therefore it will take some time before a 'normal' garage can do an MOT. However, the cars are 'simple' and you can therefore expect the costs of MOT's (if they even exist in future) to be low.

bartmanekul wrote:Likewise for a service?
My annual service was £400 which for a super car is probably 25% of the equivalent ICE. I've heard of Leaf owners paying £140 but don't know how typical this is. Thing to remember is that EV's are inherently simple with few moving parts... costs should be much lower than equivalent ICE.

bartmanekul wrote:How much to charge from empty (not that it would get totally empty) on 13p a unit?
ZOE has a 22kWh battery pack.... so a VERY rough calculation would be 22 x 13p = £2.86 + 10% (charging loss) = £3.15

You said before that you could charge at the Ecotricty post for free... therefore 22 x 0p = £0.00

bartmanekul wrote:Battery lease, the car finance
suggest you start here https://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/reservation-et-pre-reservation-2035.html

bartmanekul wrote:out lay of the charging station and installation.
I've already given you some guide pricing on Charging Stations. As a couple of people have pointed out your biggest issue will be obtaining permission to get charging installed in your shared car park. My recommendation would be to charge at work instead of at home especially if Ecotricity provide free electricity to you.

bartmanekul wrote:some sort of wear and tear im not aware of for EVs?
After driving 26,302 EV miles in the last 21 months I can confirm that the running costs are significantly below any ICE car I have ever owned.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:22 pm

"Renault expects to sell tens of thousands of Zoes each year, and will build them on the same production line as the new Clio 4. It's easy to see why Renault is so confident. Electric charging infrastructure is growing by the day, and the Zoe is the best-priced, most attractive and easy to use electric car to date"

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/281047/renault_zoe.html
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

Beemer
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:14 pm

There is more up front cost with electric cars. Forget the "eco" bit. They offer a quality of drive beyond their cost base. Fuel car owners worry about our mileage anxiety and electric car owners worry about their fuel/servicing price anxiety.

If electric cars displayed the same battery life as mobile phones and laptops, they would not be viable. I simply don't understand leasing except as some sort of incentive for people who don't or can't pay up front. When the lease is up, I'm not sure if you own the battery. I presume you do, then your motoring will be scary cheap! I'd hate to be locked into any debt or contract myself but that's just me.

I know the Leaf. It's bigger, an extremely quiet drive also with really fancy dashboard electronics. It's under £20K with a couple of thousand miles on the clock (demo's?)... The servicing ought to be cheap and the service intervals are widely spaced.

Servicing, in the UK they advertised £50. This is where EV's really shine. Add up the lifetimes ownership of your car for fuel engine related maintenance. It's huge!

MOT's should never be much of an issue.

Your parking/charging issues would make me move house. If parking is council property, have a chat with your councillor. Who knows... You might get it free via eco grants they have available?

bartmanekul
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby bartmanekul » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:42 pm

Humm, moving house isn't easy if you are on a tight budget!

It's also a very nice house which is not far from work.

As to costs, sorry I wasn't after a complete breakdown from anyone, was more for the benefit of trying to get everything and no hidden costs. Thank you for answering and asking about insurance group, would appriciate the answer if you get it.

If not, I'll fire off an email to renualt. Or maybe my insurer, though they might not know yet.

Looks like it's gone down - http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/range/electric.aspx

Charging, I can't charge at Eco because theres only 2 charging points, used for nemisis and a few other EV cars.

This might change in the future but I can't count on it.

I will see nearer the time what the financing options are, but with the lease it's likely it won't be affordable.

It's a real shame, because the more I read about EVs (and see petrol prices go up), the more I'd like one.

Might as well do the math though, just in case of a payrise or so others can get an idea of TCO.

bartmanekul
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby bartmanekul » Tue May 22, 2012 12:58 pm

Shameless bump, any additonal info about the Zoe?

I did email Renualt some time ago, and was told it was passed on but have received no response.

Has anyone found out what insurance group it would be yet? I have managed to get my partner into it, so we are saving up but will not be able to afford it for a few years, and buying second hand is impossible due to 1. the government grant knocks 5 grand off new ones, and 2. the battery lease will stop people from selling them too soon.

I do think this is a really good aim for the general EV market, and they just need to bring the battery lease down. I also had a word with my local garage, whom doesn't think servicing and MOTs will be a problem.

Beemer
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Tue May 22, 2012 1:49 pm

If a £5,000 grant knocks down the new cost it will reflect on the second hand market too.

look here: http://www.motors.co.uk/used/cars/nissan/leaf

Nothing to rent/lease/sign away your freedoms to/the parasitic money drip and never-never.. These are now dropping to the level of self builds in cost. And read the amazing guarantee's that help in insurance costs.

At the end of the day, such a vehicle is not good for you if you cannot garage to recharge it. The price point on EV's are far better for hobbyists rebuilding specials, Sunday vehicles, home tinkerers, people needing new avenues to invest their own dud money. etc.

Insurance
a simple Google shows...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/the-n ... 27021.html
http://www.nissan-aftersales.co.uk/insu ... -insurance
http://www.allstate.com/auto-insurance/ ... rance.aspx
http://www.roadtaxprices.co.uk/Nissan_L ... _Quote.htm
Forum on the subject:
http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/forumdisplay. ... -Insurance

Quotes obtained on these show a marked reduction over fuelled cars.

Beemer
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Tue May 22, 2012 2:05 pm

Oh, and servicing.

There was big advert about the Leaf in a Sunday magazine telling the world how cheap servicing costs are for this car. I think it said £50 all in.
Also MOT's will be far less of a problem. Half the MOT issues come from the engines/emissions/Exhausts/rattled mountings etc.. The Nissan electrical/electronic train is warranted for 10yr.

Renaults are supposedly less reliable than Nissans. It's smaller than the Leaf. And that darned payment on the drip simply turns my blood cold.

bartmanekul
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby bartmanekul » Wed May 23, 2012 7:17 am

So MOTs may/may not be more expensive until you find someone which won't baulk at something new, I suppose that's a given, and theres at least 3 years grace period (buying from new).

I know your an advocate of the leaf, but I like the Zoe for a number of reasons. First is that it doesn't seem as big as the leaf. The leaf does actually look huge when next to other cars, it was next to an old A4 in our car park and dwarfed it.

The Zoe has lots of tech which helps, namely the charge limit display. This will tell you if you can make it to a destination or not, and perhaps more importantly, if the situation changes (i.e. your using a lot of power for whatever reason) you'll know if you need to stop somewhere to charge.

The initial cost will be much lower, unless Leafs drop dramastically. I know you hate the monthly charge for the battery lease (I do more, probably on a much tighter budget!) but it does make sense for some.

First it takes the worry away about the battery, I know they don't last forever and they are a very expensive part of the car. The second is that it's breakdown cover, even if you run out of charge.

I still think it's too exspensive mind, aiming for a cheap car but whacking £70 a month extra stops a lot of people. But hey, maybe they are taking a loss, who knows (I doubt it).

I know an EV will cost us more, it's simple fact as it's just not mainstream. The charging station in the car park might not be as expensive as we thought.

I have always wanted something different from a car though. For some people it's a fast, noisey car. For others it's a huge, flashy one. I've never been interested in those, having an EV which gives me trouble free motoring and is lovely and quiet while being able to breeze past petrol stations is something which really appeals.

I appriciate the info on the leaf, but unless they come down a lot I can't see them being viable. I would always worry about the battery as well, I know they lose charge and being able to change it when it drops to 80 or 70% would give me huge peice of mind, even if I am paying through the nose for it.

Beemer
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Wed May 23, 2012 10:03 am

You didn't listen.

MOT's will cost the same as any car but there is less to fail on an EV. No MOT's on van's!

The Leaf's battery has a 10yr warranty, more range and bigger savings second hand. But the other is: £70/month for a decade.. £8,400 + car price? Bad news, not cheap and will destroy 2nd hand values. Also expensive if you don't max the monthly mileage.

ALL production EV's have extensive "heads up" electronics with more toys than you can point a stick at.

The initial cost..... will be far lower if you buy a second hand Fiat 500 or the more reliable Honda Jazz.

The Leaf's a normal sized large hatchback. (Length: 4.445m. Width: 1.77m. Height: 1.550m)

The Peugot electric van gets a 20% rebate and claims to save 10% over the diesel (costs) in the real world.
We pay £70 to fill a car up for 500miles. The payback is you putting in the mileage for the rental. Do you?

An EV is not for your lifestyle. You cannot charge it up at home. They stand, as I said before for hobbyists, specials, kit cars, Sunday rides and second cars.

Considered an electric bicycle? People who have them really do love them to bits. :D Give one a try. :wink:

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Kevin Sharpe
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Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed May 23, 2012 11:41 am

do you want to easily drive more than 80 miles a day in your EV?

If you do then I would argue that the ZOE is a better choice than the Leaf. I say this because AC public charging is much cheaper to install than DC. For example, a 43kW AC Charging Station will cost £500 and a 50kW DC Charger £8000.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe


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