Master Board Version 3

Threads relating to the BMS system begun by Peter Perkins

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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby GregsGarage » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:46 am

retepsnikrep wrote:I did not include the return from the tellymate as i can't see any need. It's a dum peripheral.

The other reason I thought for including a return from the tellymate, was if we wanted to use a fancier display in the future. Some quite reasonably priced touch screen lcds are availble that just need a 2 way serial connection. This could allow for a colour graphical display with touch screen input. Put a header on the circuit board so you have the option to build with a tellymate or a serial connection. Of course if we did move the buttons to a touch screen that makes the buttons input pin available, so maybe that could be used for the second pin for a touch screen lcd? We may never do this, but nice to have the circuit laid out if we want to give it a try. What do you think, hair-brained idea or worth a look? :lol:

Personally i think a seperate little board with a simple 12F683 looking after your pump is the best idea.

I will do this then, just thought if any inputs were going spare...
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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby retepsnikrep » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:00 pm

GregsGarage wrote:Some quite reasonably priced touch screen lcds are availble that just need a 2 way serial connection. This could allow for a colour graphical display with touch screen input.
Examples?

OK We could move to a 40 pin chip PIC 16F1939 twice the memory and has the cap sensing for simple buttons. It is a pin for pin replacement for the 16F887 which is the 40 pin brother of the 16F886 we currently use. We get another 10 I/O or so and it is programmable with our current programmer! Then you can have your onboard vacum thingy :D

Also my schematic program has the 16F887 so i can use it to represent the 16F1939 which is too new. 8)

I'll change the master schematic and add the new chip :shock:

Comments?
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby GregsGarage » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:20 pm

This was one I had in mind, http://www.4dsystems.com.au/prod.php?id=113. The company does a range of displays, this particular one has touch screen, speaker and micro sd card slot. This could be used for data logging and/or to have a nice background image that data is overlayed on. I think pricing was around £60, less than half the cost of the previous model it replaced and in a year it will probably be even cheaper. Also seen similar things on ebay from China.

The 40 pin chip sounds good. 8)
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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby retepsnikrep » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:33 pm

The 16F1939 is available in PDIP and seems to be supported by PBPro using MASAM so should work. I'll have to get my head round MASAM now arrrgghhhh!!

Although I like the idea of the fancy display i think we should go with the tellymate for this version. We could easily bite of more than we can chew trying to go all hightech. The tellymate offers us loads of extra screen space compared to the simple 16x9 we have now. If we have a spare I/O then that can be brought out to a possible connection for the fancy display later.
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby GregsGarage » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:30 pm

retepsnikrep wrote:The 16F1939 is available in PDIP and seems to be supported by PBPro using MASAM so should work. I'll have to get my head round MASAM now arrrgghhhh!!

Might have to anyway if I can get the interrupt routine that I got working on the watchdog to work directly in the master. If so that requires MPASM, but would mean we don't need the extra connection between the master and watchdog. So far the only difference I have found is the way you set configuration bits, which I still haven't gotten to work completely, probably a syntax error. :? Also the routine can handle multipule interupts which could be useful, but one thing at a time, got to get my head around the configuration bits first.

Although I like the idea of the fancy display i think we should go with the tellymate for this version. <snip> If we have a spare I/O then that can be brought out to a possible connection for the fancy display later.

Definitely stay with the tellymate, but we could add a header that connects to pin 3 and 27 (buttons and tellymate). Then we have it if we want it at a later date. A few copper traces and some holes don't cost much. We could use the buttons pin because they won't be needed with the touch screen. 8)

Is J11 for my controller? If it is then it will need a serial to ttl level shifter circuit. Something like a max232 chip would work or the circuit I posted a while ago. Will need to test it first with V2 of the master to make sure the circuit is correct, when I tried it with the arduino it took a bit of fiddling, something about having to connect rx to tx and vice versa, but I can't remeber the exact details at the moment. :shock: It definitely needs testing before we get pcbs made. You had also mentioned optically isolating it from the controller. I am not sure this is necessary as the controllers logic board is optically isolated from the power board and the controller logic board and master will share the same 12 volt power source and earths. The controller requires the logic supply is isolated and separate from the traction pack and won't function correctly if they are not isolated.
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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby retepsnikrep » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:35 pm

GregsGarage wrote:Is J11 for my controller? If it is then it will need a serial to ttl level shifter circuit. Something like a max232 chip would work or the circuit I posted a while ago. Will need to test it first with V2 of the master to make sure the circuit is correct, when I tried it with the arduino it took a bit of fiddling, something about having to connect rx to tx and vice versa, but I can't remeber the exact details at the moment. :shock: It definitely needs testing before we get pcbs made. You had also mentioned optically isolating it from the controller. I am not sure this is necessary as the controllers logic board is optically isolated from the power board and the controller logic board and master will share the same 12 volt power source and earths. The controller requires the logic supply is isolated and separate from the traction pack and won't function correctly if they are not isolated.


Will it need the level shifter? The pic I/O ouput is 5v TTL/CMOS If your controller has some level shifting on the serial i/o to make it compatible with true PC level serial +15-15v serial signals just omit it/them. The pics should be able to talk directly with just a 4k7 resistor between them on rx/tx lines and common grouind. I agree no isolation reqd.
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.

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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby GregsGarage » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:13 pm

The controller does have a ttl to serial level shifter circuit inside which is needed for connecting it to a pc. I could bypass it except that I need the pc connection for diagnosing problems and initial setup of the controller. Running 2 connectors from the controller is a bit messy and I am trying not to "fork" the controller design. The other option is for me to make up a cable with the serial to ttl level shifter built inside. Should be able to fit it inside a RS232 housing.
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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby timpootle » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:56 am

retepsnikrep wrote:
GregsGarage wrote:Some quite reasonably priced touch screen lcds are availble that just need a 2 way serial connection. This could allow for a colour graphical display with touch screen input.
Examples?

I know you guys are heading off in a different direction, but the display Russ Sciville got me was a http://www.weintek.com/global/ MT6050i

It seems to be linux xwindows based, with the display software running on the display itself and the cell data coming from the Guantuo 'brain'. Connection is by RS232, which is what made my ears prick up when you were talking about 2-way serial link, touchscreen, etc. I haven't tried re-programming it yet as I don't want to lose the proprietary software it came with.

I can't tell you how much it cost, but I think Russ bought it in this country.

HTH
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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby Fufunka » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:07 pm

Some of these feature requests appeared on page #1,
others were gleaned from older posts, understandably some might be more suitable for V4..

- support for gfx display, very interesting mix of info-tabs and visualization shown in this example, apart from neat display arrangement, his very idea of "on the fly" BMS data export into older inexpensive touchscreen pda via serial, which also allows for data recording is quite interesting (recycling at its best).. In the same vein, it can be also based on brand new/more readable display mio M400, there are some projects for this as well, using it as frontend for opensource applications, look for "LK8000", it's basically mutliboot enabled firmware, so you can reverse back for stock auto navigation or reverse it for warranty reasons etc.
http://hr-ev.blogspot.com/2010/05/3e-ec ... ctric.html (scroll down for video sample)
pda emulator prototyping: http://hr-ev.blogspot.com/2009/05/bcms- ... boxes.html
Mio M400: http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en ... =&gs_rfai=


- delayed charging/relay, not only for the nightly rate savings scheduling, it also might serve as battery life enhancer, as per little Tesla's secret, you should not grow habit of leaving your ev pack fully charged sitting idly for hours (even at 80-90% SOC), that's killing prematurely lots of calendar life in lithium, ideally the pack should be left ~half depleted most of the time, and charged before the ride with a couple of minutes to level off (protect hard regen w. full pack scenario). Now the question is how to integrate it with some timer function either on the master board or with/without existing-commercial product external timer unit or its modification, what's most preferable approach?

- additioanal relay output control for temp management (heating,cooling)


Also Peter mentioned couple of months ago:

- "A BCM Interceptor (This is an RS485 interface specifically for the Honda Insight"
- "An ODBII connection so that data from the car can be displayed on BMS screen."

Especially on the last one, that's very good point, integrating these other operational values would be mostly usefull for various phev mods/kits, for instance think the Engineer kit for HSD/Toyota or the IMA in Honda, or any future hybrid standard, like the upcomming diesel based from frenchies.

For that, you might check the eccomodder forums, "openduino" related threads in the [instrumentation section], these guys have opensource canbus software and hw for vehicle monitoring, and not only for passive displays but also submiting clearing error codes on the canbus etc., their site should provide great start.
Last edited by Fufunka on Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Master Board Version 3

Postby retepsnikrep » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:38 am

Thanks for the input. I do frequent the ecomodder forums and have seen the canbus stuff. Way over my head :shock:

I think that is too advanced for v3 to be fair and to be honest the BMS has been aimed squarly at supporting my own Honda Insights and basic EV's

I have brought some ODBII interface chips and will shortly be fiddling with them, but that is again aimed squarely at the MK1 Honda Insights which have a secondary ODBII bus dedicated to the IMA system. I/We Insight enthusiasts want to interogate that without paying £10,000 for the Honda tool. The info is not accesible with standard ODBII tools.

I will include a delayed start charge function as that is worthwhile. That can be implemented in software fairly easily once the timer issue for the master is sorted out. May need an I2C real time clock on the board.

That HREV is a nice project we know that chap Mindgaus he contributed here and took some ideas from our early BMS and has developed them nicely into his own version 8) He might well share his touch screen code/stuff here if asked.

Whatever happens with V3 of the master it has to remain within my limited abilities. If it grows too quickly it will become unreliable and the software unmanageable by me anyway. There is still a bit of work to do on the master software to get it to 100% finished even for the V2 board. One second loop timer is the main thing :roll:

Keep the ideas comming though. Whatever you or we do please post the details and schematics here so we can learn from each other. Thanks Peter
Regards Peter

Two MK1 Honda Insight's. One running 20ah A123 Lithium pack. One 8ah BetterBattery Nimh pack.
One HCH1 Civic Hybrid running 60ah A123 Lithium pack.


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