Sudden drop in range !!!!

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ChrisB
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Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby ChrisB » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:50 pm

Well last week saw my old Berlingo flash the old recharge light at me after doing just 34 miles with 45% on yea olde energy meter :shock:

After a couple of further runs it very soon became apparent we had a problem of some sorts, with battery volt levels dropping to around 153v with a 50amp load after around 25miles :?

Its been 4 years of trouble free motoring from the old girl so I cant really moan, but all the batteries are post 2000 and I feel I've given them careful treatment, although they are due a drink with just over 500ah on the clock.
Hope to give them a drink tomorrow after a Maint Charge and see how that goes down :?: I have noticed that the rear pack has got a damp patch around the crates center drain hole (not the watering overflow) although I think this is a slight leak on the coolent rather than electrolyte as it has a oily feel of the antifreeze.

Did another run today after a forced EQ charge, all on A roads, covered 36miles to 47% but again voltage sag was showing its ugly face by then again with 152v with a 50amp load on them, not sure it would have got much further than 40 odd miles before it would all fall over again :(
Currently not sure if its just a single battery thats got an issue or if we've got a major battery failure :shock: :?
Bizzare as shes been running lovely and only recently ran a 49miler of which 30 of those where at 50mph on a motorway, quite weird its fallen over so quickly? but then as Grumps has found they do have a habit of doing this and the cells are getting on a bit now.

Should know more after the watering I suspect :?

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

cianof
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby cianof » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:24 am

Sorry to hear it Chris. That's a situation all E500 drivers dread.

Maybe measuring the pack voltages at full charge and again at the point when the recharge light comes could show which pack is causing the problem?

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ChrisB
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:04 pm

Thats the plan after giving them a good drink and some further test runs.

Although the voltage off the EVlite shows a fairly uniformed drop in volts, almost like a total capacity drop over the lot :?

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Grumpy-b
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby Grumpy-b » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:51 pm

I drive a bit after the light has come on, leap out and quickly test pack voltage then try and do the top, rear and middle voltages. Simply do the maths and you have the lower front pack voltage.
I have a simple spreadsheet on a PDA (Excell version attached)that does this and also, then calculates the pack averages, the overall average. Then a good check is to do an assume one cell is dead check. You take any volatge you like, say the highest average pack cell voltage, multiply your assumed voltage by number of cells in the pack less one, and then take this total from the recorded pack voltage. If it gives you a remainder of significantly less than the average cell voltage, its likely you have a cell duff in that pack.

I find this a usefull way of tracking which pack is going wrong.
I recently did a voltage check on two packs (I do have each cell wired on this vehicle) and the did a reading every 5% power usage. The duff cells were fine until a certain point then they drop rapidly. So the only way to find the duff ones is at the point where the light has come on.

Sucking eggs Im sure but this may help someone.

Grumpy-b
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ChrisB
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:34 pm

Thats very handy grumps, cheers 8)

Once I'm all watered up and done a few more test runs I'll carry out some further checks and see what I get back.

Will post the reports here as and when, although the weathers not looking too good currently so doubt it will be for a week or so.

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

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ChrisB
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:49 pm

Right looks like I've found the culprit :evil:

ChrisB wrote:I have noticed that the rear pack has got a damp patch around the crates center drain hole (not the watering overflow) although I think this is a slight leak on the coolent rather than electrolyte as it has a oily feel of the antifreeze.


Just finished the watering and the center crate drain is weeing away nicely :x

So it looks like I have a split or burnt battery casing in the rear pack :roll: ho hum :roll:

I'm wondering if its a battery that I exchanged from one from the center pack when I changed the batterys over 4yrs ago, as that pack had been clobbered underneath and it had grazed the crate quite badly and very nearly sliced the bottom out of this battery, I deliberately placed this battery in the rear as its one of the easy ones to drop.
Although the casing of the battery had quite a big "dig" in it it wasnt showing any signs of problems but hey maybe over 4yrs the case has become pourous and its allowed the "juice" out :? this could show up as the cell going quite high resistance as it discharges and drys out underload thus making the pack appear to run out of capacity, I must admit my pack use to give up the ghost very quickly after recharge light came on, it would be pretty much dead as a doe doe within just a few miles yet recently its been maintaining 4-5 miles which again would indicate that quite likely the rest of the pack is OK and its just this one cell thats going high resistance :?

Right looks like I've got a little job to do then :roll:

Only problem is I've only got a selection of pre 2000 cells to go back in when I find the duffer, well at least I've got some spare cells 8)

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

Grumpy-b
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby Grumpy-b » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:00 pm

Check all the pipework in the case, I have had some Ive taken off that have split along trhe side of the extrusion, not easy to see you have to take each hose off.

I have loads of spares if you need them.

Grumpy-b

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ChrisB
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:22 pm

Cheers, I've got plenty from the other van here as well 8)

I'm not convinced its just a split hose as the bottom of the crate was quite damp/leaky before I started :roll: which made me think if theres a problem its going to be there if anywhere, although I thought it was coolent :?

Should have done a litmus test on it as that would have shown up what it was pretty quickly :wink:

My betting is its that battery that got grazed which has expired, certainly the rear pack took more water than I was expecting and the leak while it isnt a gusher is enough to make me think its a case failure rather than a split pipe as it still all watered through OK

Chris
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cianof
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby cianof » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:25 pm

If it's not too much trouble, can you take some pics of the job, would like to see how it goes? Thanks.

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ChrisB
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Re: Sudden drop in range !!!!

Postby ChrisB » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:35 pm

cianof wrote:If it's not too much trouble, can you take some pics of the job, would like to see how it goes? Thanks.


I always try to when ever I work on the van :wink:

Heres my battery change report which goes into detail about the scuffed batterys with picture :wink:
Actually doesnt look as bad as I remember it :?
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79&start=10

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!


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