EV safety for heart pacemakers

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timpootle
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Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby timpootle » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:33 pm

or walking under pylons??
Tim Crumpton

ex925
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Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:29 pm

Can anyone estimate how the (RFI, EMF, anything else we need to worry about?) compares between:

1 Walking under a pylon

2 A local diesel rail-car
2.1 (Are any of those diesel-electric?)

3 An electric main-line express

4 A Nissan Leaf

5 A Fiat Cinquecento conversion with:
5.1 8 110a/h gel batteries, 1 more due to be fitted, 5 in the boot in a steel case, 3 in the engine-bay
5.2 A Zapi 120v.dc controller set at 96v.dc / 300amp in an aluminium case in the engine-bay
5.3 A Nelco N132 motor mounted on the bell-housing
5.4 A Zivan NG3 presently set at max. 107v.dc
5.5 50mm2 welding cables running under the cab from the rear battery-pack in a gradual spiral

6 A 36v.dc "250w" lithium-powered EAPC with controller just above the bottom-bracket

7 Components in a 2008 Daihatsu Sirion often generating loud (RFI?) on a HTC HD2 phone

8 Electric retarder in a 'bus or coach

9 Chain-store elevator

10 Domestic appliances such as bread-maker or microwave oven

11 Domestic stair-lift

Trying to think beyond the basics such as shop and airport security gates and devices

Happy Christmas

Ed

JonSpence
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Location: Rochdale

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby JonSpence » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:46 am

ex925 wrote:Can anyone estimate how the (RFI, EMF, anything else we need to worry about?) compares between:
Ed


Well most of us are fairly immune to RFI/EMF (ignoring microwaves for the moment)

However assuming that we are talking of someone who needs a pacemaker, here is a link and some comments of my own.

http://www.emfs.info/Sources%20of%20EMFs

5 A Fiat Cinquecento conversion with:.....
The only doubts I have is 5.5 It may be that the twisted pair method and the floor pan offers good screening but I would be tempted to use armoured cable bonded at both ends to act as a good EMF screen. There is also no mention of the wire between the controller and the motor, this can be the very noisy. I would certainly look at the possibility of screening it. You could use bonded copper tape covered in heatshrink.

7 Components in a 2008 Daihatsu Sirion often generating loud (RFI?) on a HTC HD2 phone
Stand well clear if you need a pacemaker.


Personally I feel that the Salesrep wasn't answering the question but simply rephrasing the opinion "Why would you want a EV when a standard car is more flexible". In the EU there are strict controls which manufacturers are bound by (ISO 7637 in this case). Personal conversions and historic vehicles have more freedom. I would be VERY surprised if RFI/EMF levels in the likes of a Nissan Leaf were any risk to someone who needed a pacemaker, though I would advise asking the question of Nissan's HQ. I have not, myself, read ISO 7637, but I think that you may be able to access it at your main library.

ex925
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:43 pm

For sale, 1996 Fiat Cinquecento converted to battery-electric power
Converted by Grilli Automotive in 2009, upgraded by Jozztek in 2011
Also in November 2011, fitted with 2 new and 7 recent 110a/h SLAs
December 2011, fitted replacement 65a/h Optima YT auxiliary battery
Nelco series-wound N132 DC motor, standard 5-speed manual gearbox
Zapi 96v.dc controller fitted in aluminium case to suppress RFI
Zivan NG3 charger, 12v.dc auxiliary charger, variety of 15-amp 240v.ac cables
Volvo electric vacuum-pump assisted brakes
Taxed and tested to December 2012
Found an amenable insurer accepting “modified-car”
Best range recently 21 miles on hilly plateau near Plymouth
Max. speed indicated recently just under 70mph

Reason for sale: Partner now entirely dependent on heart pacemaker
Medical advice therefore NO EV safe to enter or ride within
(learned this very unexpectedly in annual check 3 weeks AFTER purchase...)
Hence aspired long-term development project now not feasible for me

October 2011, paid £1,450.00- for car and replacement batteries
November 2011Jozztek upgrade cost £1,400.00-

Presently completing improvements to rear battery-pack compartment
Also in process of diagnosing intermittent no-drive fault
Car will be available for sale when this work is completed, c.2 weeks

Great fun to drive, appears to cost c. 1p/mile

Included in deal,
Spare Zapi controller, Spare Zivan charger, spare Optima YT aux. Battery
1 Sprung “towing-pole” which can be taken down to fit in boot
(just in case of range over-optimism.....)

I hate having to sell this little gem, but it is a visual reminder we need to move on

I just want to recover as much of the money I laid out as possible
This will be on here for 2 weeks for offers, (see also for sale section of this forum) then on ebay
If not sold, will sell EV parts, original parts, and shell separately
If necessary will be scrapped, which would be a shame

Ed. Gordon in Plymouth, Devon

eddadog@hotmail.com

Home 01752 771287
Mobile 07909 895940

ex925
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:27 pm

Hi, guys, re my Fiat EV
Both my Zapi controllers (the 96v.dc in the car and the 120v.dc spare) are blown

( I rang Zapi; "Dave" told me a simple test
Continuity < 1k between Pack minus and VMN HV terminals
Both controllers read zero ! )

Does anyone have a surplus 120v.dc 300 + amp series motor controller ?
If not, does anyone know a good source of one ?
Found none on ebay

If necessary, I will send one to Zapi for new mosfets, (guesstimate cost c. £200.00-...)

Any comments would be gratefully received

Regards
Ed

ex925
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:39 pm

Hi, guys, just a pic, and the news that I shall probably have the Zapi controller re-built soon.....
Attachments
FiatEVfront-email.jpg
FiatEVfront-email.jpg (71.87 KiB) Viewed 9456 times

ex925
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:04 am

OK... A 500A Kelly controller just arrived Could be the answer More soon Ed

Beemer
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Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby Beemer » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:14 pm

Hello Ex925,
I can inform you with no compunction whatsoever just about nothing will affect a heart pacemaker. They are quite literally EMI hardened. They will be one of a very few devices left that will be functioning after an atomic strike.

Something I learned on a job I was working on to remotely kill terrorist devices ;)

ex925
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:12 am

Very grateful for that, and this source, your work, should be definitive
A very positive contrast to my (I believed...) authoritative sources so far
Would it be OK if I pass that comment to the pacemaker clinic people and the pacemaker manufacturer
If OK, should the comment be quoted anonymously, or may I give them some degree of source?
Kind regards
Ed

ex925
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: EV safety for heart pacemakers

Postby ex925 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:12 pm

Had the chance to speak briefly with a pacemaker expert
He advised that there are documented instances with current-generation pacemakers of external interference effects
The most prominent examples are of pacemaker implantees experiencing the need to cancel flights and go instead to hospital for readjustment of pacemakers caused to switch to "default" mode or similar by proximity to airside-entrance security-gates
Even such a relatively harmless event for an implantee using a pacemaker for "minimum heartbeat maintenance" would be a grave risk to Jeanie, who is entirely dependent on her pacemaker for survival
Thus we feel that, at present, the risk is too great, especially as Jeanie's pattern of "ignition-timing" is custom-developed in conjunction with her evolving heart deficiency and the close proximity of a large, hollow-sphere, titanium aortic heart-valve

I am optimistic regarding what may result from an upgraded replacement heart pacemaker in the future

Many thanks

ed


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