Charging points and Renault Zoey

General BVS related area
Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Wed May 23, 2012 12:13 pm

Hi Kev,
Both use the same J1772 standard. The Leaf also takes 16A Commado. I've not seen this on the Renault.

Regardless, of supply, most users charge from home.

He cannot charge from home so its game over.

bartmanekul
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:01 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby bartmanekul » Wed May 23, 2012 12:58 pm

You didn't listen.

MOT's will cost the same as any car but there is less to fail on an EV. No MOT's on van's!


Sorry, I was but I was just thkning out loud. My expirence is that you usually pay extra for services for technology that is out of the norm, as it were. Just my opinion, could be wrong.

The Leaf's battery has a 10yr warranty, more range and bigger savings second hand. But the other is: £70/month for a decade.. £8,400 + car price? Bad news, not cheap and will destroy 2nd hand values. Also expensive if you don't max the monthly mileage.


I know that in the long run I'll paying more, but as I said it's piece of mind. Theres also considerations like what does the 10 year warranty cover, does it cover battery degradation, and if so to what level before it's replaced? And do they do that for second/third hand owners?

Plus, you take a small chunk out for what you would usually pay for breakdown cover, and they would pick you up if you run out of charge. You never know!

ALL production EV's have extensive "heads up" electronics with more toys than you can point a stick at.


I know, but it's not just toys I want, it's useful toys like the location charge range I mentioned.

The initial cost..... will be far lower if you buy a second hand Fiat 500 or the more reliable Honda Jazz.


It would be incredibly lower if I bought a diesel/petrol car, but I want a mass production, built to be EV from the ground up car.

An EV is not for your lifestyle. You cannot charge it up at home. They stand, as I said before for hobbyists, specials, kit cars, Sunday rides and second cars.


I completely disagree with this idea. I aim to solve the charging problem by having a charging point installed in the car park, that aside I really can't see why 'normal' people can't have one. A bit of planning around your trips is all that's needed, I don't see why it's not for me.

I already said I know theres extra cost which I am aware of, it almost seems you want it to remain a niche thing for hobbists and enthusiasts alone :?

do you want to easily drive more than 80 miles a day in your EV?


Doubtful, only on occasions where I visit my mother whom lives in Wales. While one charge wouldnt be enough to get there and back, we always stay a good few hours which would be enough to charge it for the way home even on a domestic supply. In addition, theres an Ecotricity point on the way.

Do we spend £70 odd on fuel a month currently, sometimes yes sometimes no. However, what does restrict us is the fuel cost. We would love to just jump in the car and go places when we feel like but currently the cost of petrol stops us.

This is one area where an EV would give us freedom.

User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Bradford on Avon
Contact:

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed May 23, 2012 1:44 pm

Beemer wrote:Both use the same J1772 standard
Sorry but you are confused. The Leaf uses a Type 1 ("J1772") connector which can charge up to 16A single phase (~3kW). The ZOE uses the Type 2 ("mennekes") connector that can charge up to 63A three phase (~43kW).
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Bradford on Avon
Contact:

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed May 23, 2012 1:56 pm

bartmanekul wrote:
do you want to easily drive more than 80 miles a day in your EV?

Doubtful, only on occasions where I visit my mother whom lives in Wales. While one charge wouldnt be enough to get there and back, we always stay a good few hours which would be enough to charge it for the way home even on a domestic supply. In addition, theres an Ecotricity point on the way.
Either car will drive you 80 miles. However, charging on route will be a very different experience... the Leaf will charge at ~10 miles range per hour using the Ecotricity post at 16A... the ZOE will charge to 100% in less than an hour on the Ecotricity post at 63A 3 Phase.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Wed May 23, 2012 2:12 pm

MOT's do not involve technology. They are a safety test and there is less to test on an EV but an eye check on wiring safety which is done anyway.

Breakdowns:
There was something similar with Leaf's in the US on breakdowns. They have the same CEO.

When I say more toys than you can shake a stick at.. I meant it! The Renault system is a smaller screen and more simple.
Check them out. No need to guess one choice is better.

A charging point. If you can.. Have a chat with Kev. He is installing points. Checked his sites? Have a chat with your councillor. They love brownie points and the Gov't is desperate to reduce our national bleeding of cash to foreign energy suppliers but the land owner might not want nor care. But I warn you not to leave a car on charge overnight lest some scrotum is unduly attracted and does something stupid to it. Please don't consider "normal" people to live in coups and be landless!

Make your savings with an electric bike. :wink:

EV's are not necessarily cheap per mileage. Some imagine they should be lighter, cheaper and save the world too! To drive an EV is a great experience. The drive is what they are about.

Kev, you couldn't be more wrong. The Leaf has BOTH! The J1772 is (80A max) DC with sensor/remote cut off lines. Charging empty to 70% is 30 minutes. The other is 16A.
Image

User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Bradford on Avon
Contact:

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed May 23, 2012 3:43 pm

Beemer wrote:Kev, you couldn't be more wrong. The Leaf has BOTH! The J1772 is (80A max) DC with sensor/remote cut off lines. Charging empty to 70% is 30 minutes. The other is 16A.
NO... the connector on the left (near the hand) of this picture is CHAdeMO which is the DC charging connector. The connector on the right is J1772 ("Type 1") AC charging connector.

You are correct that the J1772 ("Type 1") connector charges the Leaf up to 16A AC.

The ZOE has a Type 2 ("mennekes") AC connector which will charge up to 63A 3 Phase AC.

Wiki CHAdeMO

Wiki J1772

Wiki 62196 Type 2
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Wed May 23, 2012 4:23 pm

Kevin Sharpe wrote:
Beemer wrote:The ZOE has a Type 2 ("mennekes") AC connector which will charge up to 63A 3 Phase AC.


My bad... but....

That's really scary!
You mean to say the new norm for fast charging cars by Renault has not been upheld, for an old system from the 90's? The bigger issue is where on Gods Earth would you get one of those chargers! Bigger issue too is if the take-up is not high then it will do a Betamax. Or the French equivalent to the Eurofighter Typhoon... the Dassault Rafale. :mrgreen:

Found the battery rental is about fast automated battery swaps. This means 3 minute stops to change the pack. Once again, whether the take up is strong enough is where it matters.

There are no lists for 62196 Type 2

CHAdeMO
Compatible vehicle models

Nissan LEAF
Mitsubishi i MiEV
Subaru R1e (prototype)
Protoscar Lampo (prototype)
Protoscar Lampo² (prototype)
Citroën_C-ZERO
Peugeot iOn
Fiat 500

And the ever more common SAE-J1772
Compatible vehicle models

Nissan Leaf
Chevrolet Volt
Fisker Karma
Coda Automotive sedan
Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid
Mitsubishi i MiEV
Honda Fit EV (concept)
Ford Focus Electric
Rapid Electric Vehicles 300 ACX
Smart electric drive
Tesla Roadster using J1772 mobile adapter.
Tesla Model S [25]
OKA NEV ZEV AC [26]
Th!nk City
Blade Electron Mark VI and Electron "Deep Green"
Renault Kangoo Z.E. (230 V - 16 A max.)
Renault Fluence Z.E.
BMW ActiveE

User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Bradford on Avon
Contact:

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed May 23, 2012 4:36 pm

Beemer wrote:There are no lists for 62196 Type 2
IEC 62196 is the European standard for Charging Stations and is widely deployed here in the UK. It is directly compatible with many different car connectors including Type 1 ("J1772"), Type 2 ("mennekes"), Type 3 ("scame"), etc. All you need is a 'dumb' cable to convert between the connectors types.

Here for example is a 32A Type 2 to Type 1 cable that we sell;

IMG_1545_Low_Res.JPG
IMG_1545_Low_Res.JPG (211.23 KiB) Viewed 8722 times
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Wed May 23, 2012 5:06 pm

We learn something new every day.
Thanks for showing me wrong Kev or I might of been wrong a whole lot longer. :shock:

The j1772 needs control circuitry so its only pin-out differences?

Image

User avatar
Kevin Sharpe
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Bradford on Avon
Contact:

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Kevin Sharpe » Wed May 23, 2012 7:44 pm

Beemer wrote:The j1772 needs control circuitry so its only pin-out differences?
All of the AC standards use the same protocol for communicating charging status and Charging Station current capabilities. So yes, it's really down to pinout differences.
Kevin Sharpe - Founder and Patron for UK registered charity Zero Carbon World. Founder and Chairman Mainpine Group. http://about.me/kevinsharpe


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests