Energy supply drought

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MORT 666
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:38 pm

Energy supply drought

Postby MORT 666 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:46 pm

Hi new here .A question if the government of the day would like us to use electric vehicles :idea: ,how is it today the energy companys cant supply enough power as it is. :twisted:

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timpootle
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Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby timpootle » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:11 pm

Hello MORT. That's a big question for your first post. I don't agree with any of your assertions, but it is a problem we will all have to face in the future.

1)...if the government of the day would like us to use electric vehicles...
I'm not sure that the government of the day cares one way or another. They are offering a grant to encourage take-up and stimulate vehicle availability, which is nice, but their motives are unclear.

2)...how is it today the energy companys cant supply enough power as it is[?]
Do you get blackouts where you live? I don't. Energy useage is a big problem, with major investment in generation needed about 15 years ago. EVs might be part of the solution, using the battery to cope with grid demand (search for "Vehicle-to-Grid", or V2G). I can also see in the near future smart grids, where the car will only get charged when demand is low, and get turned off if we all switch the kettle on.

Please craft your posts with greater care on this forum. "Hi new here." is not a great start. Try using a bit more punctuation, preferably in the right place. It makes your query more easily readable for the other forum members, and makes you look less like a troll. Also, your question bears very little relation to the original topic of Renault Zoe cars, so might have been better in a new thread, perhaps in the "Introduce yourself" forum where you could have told us more about your interest in EVs and electric power, as well as where in the world you are based.
Tim Crumpton

MORT 666
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby MORT 666 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:16 pm

So you haven't got the answer then.?

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Charging points and Renault Zoey

Postby Beemer » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:01 pm

Kevin, sorry for staining your resource.

MORT 666 wrote:So you haven't got the answer then.?


Sure. I have the answer. Why don't you?

In the case of EV's. There will be plenty of electricity at night because of the run up and down of electrical drain rates are faster than the power stations can cope. The peaks will create a cut-off condition.

EV's can easily be used as a "load balancer", taking cheap rate juice and giving it back at expensive times. All the trolls without will get cut off and eat sandwiches during peak times (adverts at Corrie when the kettles go on) while anyone with an EV can cook roast beef for tea.

One man with a Nissan Leaf on a Scottish island used his cars supply because his electric went down last winter.

Fuel is now... £1.40/litre*4.545= £6.36/gallon. The average car is 40mpg? 636/40= 15.9p/mile.
A Nissan Leaf (for instance) uses 300Whr/mile = 1KWH/3miles. = 5p/mile and require far less of those expensive engine consumables come service time.

The fact of the matter is, it takes 6.5KWH of electricity to make your one gallon of fuel (33KWH). Mostly through the refining process. The same 6.5KWH electricity can power a car the same distance of one gallon. So for most, oil is an expensive, pointless middleman. A parasite on our resources.

I bought my previous car just before the 2001 fuel strikes. Brand new and stuck in my driveway for weeks! I also lived though the 70's fuel shortages and consequent price hikes so know full well a viable electric vehicle will become a no-brainer while our kids are sent off to die to secure future oil supplies in a vain attempt to maintain a cheap cost point for fuel.

Conclusion: The Gov't cannot / will not afford to starve the electric vehicle.

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timpootle
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Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Re: Energy supply drought

Postby timpootle » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:45 am

Now split so we can keep this discussion separate from Zoe.
Tim Crumpton

Grumpy-b
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Re: Energy supply drought

Postby Grumpy-b » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:59 am

The reduction in available power production is likely to be substantial. There are a number of Government reports during the mid 2000s that looked at this. I did have a copy of one with respect to EV usage. I will try and find it or a link.There will be a substantial loss of base power production, as a number of older Nuclear power stations go offline during 2010 to 2020. With no new replacements due until the 2020s.
This base load / supply reduction is also added to by the publicised loss of less confrming Coal stations.
So availability of cheap overnight power will also be compromised over the next few years. This is nothng new, its been well known for years. I guess this could be a warming up session for a new raft of planning applications for new Gas powered stations. They can be built fairly quickly especially if sited on existing powerstation sites with existing infrastructure.
Then the first of the new Nuclear will come to public attention within the next year, then subsequent ones to follow. They are already well through the development stages with certain of the planning and consultation stages having been done already.

Overall the use of power will have to change over the next few years. There are lots of options being looked at to ease supply , including storage battery, hydro storage, and now liquid air, as ways of storing then using peak and unused power from Wind and solar etc.

Grumpy-b

Beemer
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Re: Energy supply drought

Postby Beemer » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:35 pm

Thanks for fixing this post Tim.
I've a feeling "Mort 666" is a troll thinking he could have a gloat where the converse is the truth.

A lot of these proposed storage schemes sadly are only sufficient for 12 hour cycles to even out cyclic efficiency inadequacies of large power stations.
A couple of winters ago we had high pressure which brought us no winds and extremely cold temperatures for nigh on two whole weeks! The wind farms were dead.
When solar power is most plentiful, the people need electricity the least yet we pay 40p/KWH for the pleasure.

Does not matter what the natural resources are, we cannot trust the weather to overcome our climate.

The Severn barrage was proposed decades ago but the greenies whinged about it. Could you imagine that generating 1/7 of the countries electrical needs for the past 30 years and the effect on the National balance of payments it would of generated? Not to mention a main road between Devon and Pembroke they would not doubt charge a toll for.

Governments that opened our borders and sold our energy stocks at an over reasonable rate. Which in turn increased this nations energy demands from a newly expanding non-European populace. All paid for by our repaired economy under the wake of oil and gas. Every penny squandered away plus massive debts, the highest debt per capita in the whole of the World!

Does not matter who you vote for, this is deliberate.

On the other hand, if you have property, the best place to put your money is in Solar panels. Firstly, the vacuum tubes to heat your water then electrical. Alibaba have fully certified units for 0.40 Euro per WH. They need installation and invertors. I would definitely consider both on and off grid solutions. They are are a better bet than investing money, if you include Gov't grants, (state theft) then you'll be raking it in and charging your car at cost price.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/50749 ... el_PV.html

Grumpy-b
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Re: Energy supply drought

Postby Grumpy-b » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:57 pm

There is a challenge with relying on gas.
We dont have enough of it.
Owing to world gas prices, its value is high, so our suppliers are not keen to hold large stocks. At the moment the gas storage containers in towns and Cities are mostly empty reflecting the lack of expected need for heat. There are some large underground Rock salt storage facilities ne of hull, but again not full as the cost is too high unless you have large amounts of cash to store in imported gas.
Much of our imported gas is from north africa in the form of liquified gas, its storage isnt easy.
Overall I think we can expect to see the cost of our Gas and electricity rise, especially if we have cold winters again, or if we see a substantial increase in industrial output. Imaging how much Gas companies like Forgemaster in Sheffield could use if they were ever able to do the forging that they tried to get government funding for a couple of year ago. Frightening volumes.
We also rely for about 20% of our electricty from France. A high proportion of that is Nuclear.
All very challenging. Reduce what we use is the best approach. We have one of the houshold power meters that shows what we use as a live figure, its quite enlightening to see just how much power you use when doing nothing in the house. So many small loads soon add up.
We have some of our lighting run on 12v and some of the mains on Leds. Big savings. Our solar panels are home made and deliver about 3/4 of our hot water in the summer and contribute a usefull amount in the winter. Real low tech and built into the roof not sitting on top, but accessible from inside with a Glass roof.
We can all do something to reduce our power usage. But look at cities and towns jsut how much is wasted. Look at christmas time and the sheer waste with rubbish Christmas lights. Bah Humbug.

Grumpy-b

Beemer
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Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Energy supply drought

Postby Beemer » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:33 pm

Grumpy-b wrote:..............and the sheer waste.................
Grumpy-b


+1 to all you said!
Corporate waste really does get up my craw. I'd even be knocking street lights off at night if I had my way.

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ChrisB
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Re: Energy supply drought

Postby ChrisB » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:31 pm

Beemer wrote:
Grumpy-b wrote:..............and the sheer waste.................
Grumpy-b


+1 to all you said!
Corporate waste really does get up my craw. I'd even be knocking street lights off at night if I had my way.


Quite a few councils are and have been doing this for many years :wink: today some are even able to remotely dim or turn them off, LED is making quite a impact on streetlighting as well, has anyone seen some of the new LED kit that the Highway Authority have been installing around some main junctions, its pretty incredible, lovely colour rendering, almost zero glare and very little sky glow, they almost dont look as though they are turned on until you get under them.

But less of the bah humbug christmas stuff please, I like Christmas :P

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!


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