Long range lithium conversion

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mattcarr
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby mattcarr » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:45 pm

By my quick maths I would say that Tim's van would do 120 miles on 1 parallel set of batteries. I would consider keeping a 2p pack to give a working range of at least 240 miles - and getting a 3kw charger to use alongside the existing charger so if you had the opportunity of 2 plugs you could at least charge at a higher rate.

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby Beemer » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:44 pm

mattcarr wrote:By my quick maths I would say that Tim's van would do 120 miles on 1 parallel set of batteries. I would consider keeping a 2p pack to give a working range of at least 240 miles - and getting a 3kw charger to use alongside the existing charger so if you had the opportunity of 2 plugs you could at least charge at a higher rate.


120miles @ 1P. 240 @2P? ookk. I've not done the figures myself. Got to agree with you on multiple charge rates being useful.

As an example how about one of these for a 32A socket?
8KW@240V
Elcon TCCH-H168-60, 168V & 60A output.
$2000+S&H. Have found for less but is made of unobtainium.

The above (8KW version) would recharge me in one hour from nigh on empty. On Tims, 3hours per 1P.
The 3KW charger like I'm going to buy *could* be used on a normal mains plug. For reliability and outdoor use an industrial/camping 16A.

Hope Tim doesn't mind our speculatin' ;)

mattcarr
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby mattcarr » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:18 pm

That is the one thing I would like is a more powerful charger. I have a Zivan NG3 in the car and the case sticker says it is rated for 18 amps out. With a nominal battery voltage of 82.5 that makes 1.5kw but I have seen on my power meter that it does reach about 2.2kw - so unless it is burning off 700 watts in losses it must put more in to the battery. The power gague does go up at about 10% per hour which is truly around 1.3 kw per hour if I take it as 10% of the battery capacity. I have watched the charge and it does throttle back the charger as soon as the voltage starts to creep up towards to 90 mark - and the the voltage rises quite quickly to 102 volts and this is when the charger stops charging.

I would love to fit a second charger that I can power on manually from within the car - so that I can enable it to take advantage of a 32 amp point if I ever happen to be at one so I can get a faster charge.

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby Beemer » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:03 pm

Slow charging does have the advantage of not stressing the cells so hard. Same with gentle driving - especially when it comes to lead.

Yup, As the battery voltage climbs, the voltage difference drops therefore the current

My little trike will need a single wheeled trailer to take the 8Kw Elcon 31Kg, Dimensions (mm): 357L*254W*377H...
A generator on the trailer could be a lot cheaper.

mattcarr
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby mattcarr » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:41 pm

I have often thought of using a trailor to extend the range of my car but I dont think it is an easy thing to do as it is the controller that works out the SOC left in the car so I would have to find out how to go about getting the controller changed.

This is a link to my car on the evalbum.

http://www.evalbum.com/3967

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby Beemer » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:16 pm

Odds are your SOC is set in data. Anyone got a Curtis programming thingymajig?
Odds on it will be about counting the AH.

One day when I'm older I'll be on the evalbum, lol

mattcarr
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:27 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby mattcarr » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:19 am

I did manage to borrow a curtis programmer but was not able to connect it to my controller. I think I need to rtfm and make up a cable that connects to certain pins on the main connector. I was hoping that ECCPLC would have had a plug already done somewhere on the car for controller programming, but alas it appears not.

Tim can I ask - what type of BMS have you got on your van, or will you be mannually watching the cells during charging for now?

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby Beemer » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:47 am

Poor Tim will probably be at the slave pit I guess.

His charger is a fixed voltage but the terminating voltage is old school; higher than I'd dare.

His bms shows SOH per cell and an overall SOH clock from what I've seen. I'm sure it's not a current dumping jobbie but don't know if it can knock off the charger.

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timpootle
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Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy, UK

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby timpootle » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:56 pm

Beemer wrote:Poor Tim will probably be at the slave pit I guess.

His charger is a fixed voltage but the terminating voltage is old school; higher than I'd dare.

His bms shows SOH per cell and an overall SOH clock from what I've seen. I'm sure it's not a current dumping jobbie but don't know if it can knock off the charger.


Hi folks! I had a quick holiday in Staffordshire.

My BMS is the same Guantuo system that Russ Sciville has fitted to his Elise. The charger I got from HiPower with the battery has a balancing function, but I am now thinking not to use it every charge. The BMS has a relay output to shut off the charger for overcurrent, overvoltage(per cell) and overtemp. Making the relay box is my next task.

Your speculation on lightening my pack is valid , but I am not changing the design spec until I have done at least one full length journey, just to see what it will do.

Adding a trailer pack is sensible, and I would have it self contained with its own BMS and charger so you could leave it charging half way along your journey and pick it up on your way home, fully charged. Getting the car to recognise the increased capacity is tricky but not insurmountable.
Tim Crumpton

Beemer
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Re: Long range lithium conversion

Postby Beemer » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:11 pm

timpootle wrote:Your speculation on lightening my pack is valid , but I am not changing the design spec until I have done at least one full length journey, just to see what it will do.

If you don't I'm not sure anyone here will forgive you. :lol:


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