Blingos in cold weather

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chatwindows
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Blingos in cold weather

Postby chatwindows » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:46 am

Although I charge my Blingo every night with the subsequent generation of heat, I wonder if anyone can re-assure me regarding the perils, if any, of freezing temperatures on the SAFT batteries. I can see no references to such temps in the handbook & given that there is no acid present, just distilled water, I wonder if there is any danger of frost damage. Perhaps someone will enlighten me. My vehicle stands out every night although it is down the alley up to the garage door between my front door & the fence so is sheltered. I still worry though. Before anyone suggests putting it in the garage, my Morgan Trike is in there. Together with lathes, mills, saws, welders, tools etc; etc; So no room.
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Jeremy
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Postby Jeremy » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:41 pm

The electrolyte in the SAFT cells isn't distilled water, it's potassium hydroxide in solution. At the normal concentration in these cells it's quite corrosive, but has a fairly low freezing point, well below -20 deg C, so shouldn't present a cold weather problem here in the UK.

Battery performance with cold electrolyte will be poor, but there shouldn't be any cell damage provided the temperature doesn't drop below -20 deg C or so.

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Blingo in cold weather

Postby chatwindows » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:14 pm

Thanks Jeremy. I did the fatal flaw, "assumed" about the distilled water, due to my own ignorance on the subject. Yeah I know it's all there if I look for it. But like so many others, I tend to only concentrate on something different when I'm in the pooh. I'm happy with your explanation which does make me feel safer during these cold nights. I shall probabaly continue to charge nightly at the moment, even though I seldom use more than 50% these "retired" days. Somehow the urge to go out seems to have waned during this cold spell. Thanks again anyway.
By the way, do "any" batteries freeze? In all my years in the motor trade, I don't think I ever gave the subject any thought.
Ignorance can be a very comfortable place to be in, sometimes!

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Jeremy
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Postby Jeremy » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:30 pm

Lead acid batteries can freeze fairly easily if they are allowed to go flat. When discharged, the acid electrolyte has a freezing point not that much below zero and certainly in the range of severe winter temperatures here in the UK. When fully charged, a lead acid battery's electrolyte freezes at a lower temperature, so should be OK.

The potassium hydroxide solution electrolyte in the SAFT cells will freeze at somewhere around -25 deg C or thereabouts, I think (it depends on the exact concentration, a 20% solution freezes at about -23 deg C). Battery cases could split if they froze solid, so may cause an electrolyte leak once they thaw.

I presume that there is some means of keeping the batteries warm for those vans used in Scandinavia, as I'm guessing that they may well see temperatures well below zero for fairly long periods of time.

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ChrisB
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Postby ChrisB » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:15 pm

I think the only problem I wondered about was any water left in the filling lines as I would expect these could freeze :shock: the result "could" force a pipe off one of the manifolds and thus when you come to water the batteries you "might" find they wont water correctly :shock:

You'll only know though when you come to water them :cry: the result could be that when you go to water them you'll find the water will exit the center create drains rather than the normal drain, if this happens you MUST hook the pack out and find the problem, fix it and then redo the maint charge and watering.

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Postby Grumpy-b » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:05 am

I think that is the reason why the pipes have a lot of rubber content in them, at least there is then some give in the system.
But I do think that it would be worth being extra vigillant when doing the next watering and look for leaks. Fortunately any internal leaks do end up draining from the bottom, but not so easy to see on the Top box of 4.
I have found a number of my pipes internal to a battery pack (2001)have a defect in the plastic/ rubber moulding such that they split down one side. Its not always easy to see if its on the underside.

So I think after this cold season a bit of inspection and TLC may be worth while.

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Blingos in cold weather.

Postby chatwindows » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:46 am

Is there any "easy" way of checking these connectors? Or! as I suspect. Does it entail lowering the battery packs from under the vehicle? Not a job for this time of year I admit, & as I did my last maintenance top up in November I'm inclined to wait for warmer times anyway. Took mine out in the snow today! To be fair, it was absolutely fine. I had no problems & if anything, the gentle power application seemed to help on our inclined road. I got up & down several times with far less spinning than my neighbours in their "dinosaurs"!?!?! chatwindows.

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ChrisB
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Postby ChrisB » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:38 pm

Sadly only way really is to pull the packs out, I'd wait until the next watering, as Grumpy-B says, then be on the look out for odd leaks or extra water being used etc

As mentioned in another post, being an electric motor delivers max torque from rest it does make them rather good in the snow, although I wouldnt know as mines tucked up in the drive while theres so much salt on the roads and I'm back in the oil burner for the time being.

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Postby EVan » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:24 pm

ChrisB wrote:As mentioned in another post, being an electric motor delivers max torque from rest it does make them rather good in the snow, although I wouldnt know as mines tucked up in the drive while theres so much salt on the roads and I'm back in the oil burner for the time being.


You're too kind to it - mine is the main workhorse in this weather, I even had chains on it for about a week!

Recommended upgrade: a piece of plastic slid in between the radiator and the fan cowling, to keep the battery cooling circuit from getting too cold when driving.

I had a bit of a panic late one night when it was -13 and I noticed the coolant starting to turn to slush puppy. I didn't have any anti-freeze to hand so drove the van about until the batteries warmed a little and got it all liquid again, and then left the evlite connected (and a 12V charger) to keep it circulating until the next day.

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Postby ChrisB » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:42 pm

EVan wrote:
ChrisB wrote:As mentioned in another post, being an electric motor delivers max torque from rest it does make them rather good in the snow, although I wouldnt know as mines tucked up in the drive while theres so much salt on the roads and I'm back in the oil burner for the time being.


You're too kind to it - mine is the main workhorse in this weather, I even had chains on it for about a week!


Took me far to long to get this one at what I call a reasonable price, hoping to make it last as long as possible :wink: its bad enough living next to the dam sea, anything that remotely made of metal just disolves down here :cry: its hard enough stopping the tin worm from the general salty atmosphere, no point in aggravating it with road salt.

I'm hoping this will last long enough that by the time I need to replace it there will be some fresh 2nd hand EV's on the market that are as good as the Berlingo............although its not looking promising at the moment looking at the current market ?


ChrisB
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