berlingo E500 nicads

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ecocars
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berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ecocars » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:51 pm

Hi ..same old story re the E500...but ..if we all club together then maybe we can buy the new 'Ion' batteries in bulk ..and fix our great berlingos once and for all !!??
I've e mailed this company
http://www.fevt.com/
and my garage is keen to convert my van over etc etc

ANY TAKERS ??

Regards

Jonathan
eco-cars.net

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timpootle
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby timpootle » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:59 pm

Hello Jonathan. Welcome to the forum. Where in the world are you? Are you on the www.ev-network.org.uk/ ? (Obligatory joining questions out of the way :)

There are several lithium PSA vehicle conversions underway/completed, and every one has been done differently.

Is your motive purely availability of spares? This is a good enough reason in itself, but the Ni-Cads are very robust when they are working, where lithium needs constant baby-sitting.

A commercial company doing the conversion would have many takers, I think. My own project is proceeding interminably slowly, as my cells rot away in the garage...

I will be interested ton hear what sort of reception you get from Jukka at FEVT. His company was not planning to cater for home-builders, but your commercial venture might get his interest. His own Berlingo was a development vehicle for the system he sells.

Evan Tuer has succeeded in integrating his own cell protection with the SAGEM controller you have under your bonnet, even to the extent of re-programming the charger for the correct regime needed for lithium. I chickened out and bought a separate charger, but may use his system in the future, once I am on the road.

That will do for starters. I hope your ideas spark interest with others.
Tim Crumpton

ecocars
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ecocars » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:18 pm

Hi Tim
I'm in Leicestershire..
My motive is to run the E500 myself ...with a view to selling EV's along side our Hybrid and lpg vehicles http://www.eco-cars.net (plug out of the way !!) :D

The people I've e mailed / spoken too who own berlingos ..all find it amazing the PSA have sown up saft (who made the nicads i believe) to only sell to psa group ...and at £4k per pack is silly money ...I can't believe that 6 nicads cost £666.00 each !!

My garage thinks ..as I do...that some china manufacture must sell something similar ..but so far no joy ....(I've given up with uk battery makers ...they just 'not bothered' with my questions !)

Interesting comment by you "Ni-Cads are very robust when they are working, where lithium needs constant baby-sitting." ..so you think the saft nicads are ok for the job ??

My garage feels that 'frost damage' has caused my rear pack to shatter (all the tops of the batterys where shattered )


I just want to run my berlingo ...for more than 2 miles (!!) and use it properly around leicester for local trips etc

The berlingo is an ex Loughborough Uni campus van ..2000 MY on a W plate with just 12k miles ...I'll get some picys up soon ...so you can all have a laugh :lol:
The van cost me £1645 (inc vat) for this I'm prepared to pump in the same amount to get it working properly again ...is this do able ??

Please give me some help you EV people ...I'm sure we'll all be in EV's over the next few years ...I need a head start on other car dealers !!

thanks

Jonathan

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:36 pm

ecocars wrote:Hi Tim

Interesting comment by you "Ni-Cads are very robust when they are working, where lithium needs constant baby-sitting." ..so you think the saft nicads are ok for the job ??


Most definately 8) have seen/heard many horror stories of large Ah Li-ion packs :( todate I'm yet to hear of anyone getting any decent life time out of a Li-ion pack before something weird happens (be that user error or electronic failure) which generally wrecks them :(
The newer Saft Nicads (post 2000) I recon are fantastic and one of the best batteries ever made......trouble is to my knowledge Cadmium has been banned in batteries for a while now :( and thus another reason they seem to cost 1000's or just cant be got hold of, that and PSA sewing up the whole deal on them :evil:

I'm still in the "test" zone with LiFePO4 units and so far they seem fairly good, although I'm only playing with very small Ah capacity ones that only power things like an electric push bike, but they do seem to be very good and 200% better than the SLA's they replaced, but they do need to be pandered too, dont leave them fully charged for long periods, dont leave them fully discharged for long periods, dont let the voltage drop below xx, although the BMS looks after a lot of this for you but if that fails then its bye bye batteries :( unlike Nicads or even Lead Acids where they could stand a certain amount of abuse.

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

ecocars
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ecocars » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:04 pm

thanks Chris ...BUT

I'm still in the "test" zone with LiFePO4 units and so far they seem fairly good, although I'm only playing with very small Ah capacity ones that only power things like an electric push bike, but they do seem to be very good and 200% better than the SLA's they replaced, but they do need to be pandered too, dont leave them fully charged for long periods, dont leave them fully discharged for long periods, dont let the voltage drop below xx, although the BMS looks after a lot of this for you but if that fails then its bye bye batteries :( unlike Nicads or even Lead Acids where they could stand a certain amount of abuse.

Means nothing to me !! sorry ...
So are the 'LiFePO4 units ..nicads ..or the new lion things !! ( se I'm very bad in the battery dept )
So If i find some second hand saft batterys ..that'd be my best bet ?...what about my £1600 budget ..is that realistic ?

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:05 pm

Hope you dont mind but I've moved the Berlingo chat in to the berlingo area 8)

ecocars wrote:thanks Chris ...BUT

I'm still in the "test" zone with LiFePO4 units and so far they seem fairly good, although I'm only playing with very small Ah capacity ones that only power things like an electric push bike, but they do seem to be very good and 200% better than the SLA's they replaced, but they do need to be pandered too, dont leave them fully charged for long periods, dont leave them fully discharged for long periods, dont let the voltage drop below xx, although the BMS looks after a lot of this for you but if that fails then its bye bye batteries :( unlike Nicads or even Lead Acids where they could stand a certain amount of abuse.

Means nothing to me !! sorry ...
So are the 'LiFePO4 units ..nicads ..or the new lion things !! ( se I'm very bad in the battery dept )
So If i find some second hand saft batterys ..that'd be my best bet ?...what about my £1600 budget ..is that realistic ?



Sorry, I do forget sometimes that not everyone lives and breaths batteries :oops: :lol:
LifePO4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ir ... te_battery

£1600 should get you "some" spare nicads or maybe another van which may or may not work but "might" have some good Saft units in it.
Thats really the best option, and thats what I did with mine, bought another van with Post 2000 batteries in it but a blown up controller and motor, swapped the batteries over and 3 yrs on and 10'000 miles on and (touch wood) alls been ok.

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

arsharpe
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby arsharpe » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:09 am

I have got a local mechanic (Basingstoke) to start some of the conversion of 106, but he is heavily loaded and it is getting severally delayed. So I would certainly be interested in someone that can do the conversion for me.

I do have quite a few NiCds available for sale from the 106 (same as Berlingo batts). You would normally expect to pay between £150 and £200 for each cell.
I would sell them for £150 each. Also, if required add £25/cell for measured capacity at 50A rate.

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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby Grumpy-b » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:29 pm

FRost doesnt shatter the cells if they are properly maintained, as there is either electrolyte or coolant which dont freeze in our climate or most of europe. There is also no fluid in the top of the cells If you have shattered cells its more likely explosion, of the hydrogen which is very common with these cells when they havnt been maintained properly and the electrolyte is too low. So dont believe everything "Your Garage" tells you.

Sounds like your cells have been poorly maintained and now have a number of damaged cells if you can only do 2 miles. Dont bother with pre 2000 cells as they dont seem to last to long and are now rather long in the tooth. Most have been maintained in their original use by Citroen deals who leave the service interval too long, the cells partially dry out and the plates distort, hence the explosion of the hydrogen.

Grumpy-b

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:11 pm

Grumpy-b wrote:Frost doesnt shatter the cells if they are properly maintained, as there is either electrolyte or coolant which dont freeze in our climate or most of europe. There is also no fluid in the top of the cells ...........


This is an intesting one as I myself have been concerned about watering water being left in the pipes and the tops of the batteries after watering.

Now I know some people run the lines out after watering (think Rob does) but I dont, I disconnect the feed pipe mid flow and thus leaving water in the lines and the pipes due to the valve. Now generally I doubt its a problem but what would happen if this was too freeze :shock: could it cause damage ? should we run out the lines at the end of watering OR as has been suggested else where keeping the water in the lines semi seals the batteries from the outside air.


ChrisB
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tim.strutt
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby tim.strutt » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:03 am

We leave our vans out all year long, in the open, @ c1200 feet (above snow line), on a North facing hill and haven't come accross any battery freezing temp problems.

Maybe I've been lucky and ignorance is bliss... :lol:

That said I've just had to drop the front pack today on one van, 23k miles (14k with us) and four cells are snafu... :cry:


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