berlingo E500 nicads

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:00 pm

tim.strutt wrote:We leave our vans out all year long, in the open, @ c1200 feet (above snow line), on a North facing hill and haven't come accross any battery freezing temp problems.

Maybe I've been lucky and ignorance is bliss... :lol:

That said I've just had to drop the front pack today on one van, 23k miles (14k with us) and four cells are snafu... :cry:


Are they pre 2000 cells Tim.

As I mentioned I'm not sure if it makes any difference leaving the lines full of water or not :?

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Grumpy-b
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby Grumpy-b » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:53 pm

The lines will drain down over time and its only really the line to the first cell that could have water in it. The filling line becomes a vent line so it must drain down (Mine certainly dont just stop after filling).
Whilst it is water in the lines they are all rubber/ softish vinyl of some type so would be able to expand with probably very little water in the cell itself once the internal valve has closed.
In normal usage / daily charging I would think the temp probably doesnt reach freezing. The european users many of whom are in freezing climates dont appear to have had a problem. There is a report from the sweedish trialsduring late 90s which also had Renaults with STM type batteries, and no failure are reported as a result of frost damage.
My own experience of damaged top casings is explosions. Im certain these were not water as the fluid level in the cell cannot reach where the damage occured.
If I had some spare freezer space I would put one in to see what it does. I will see if I can find a commercial freezer and put a freshly watered one in it. Not sure if wirk will allow that, but we do have one for dead animals that may be a possibility.

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tim.strutt
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby tim.strutt » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:47 pm

Hi Chris - No the the top pack has a date of 12/2000 on the side - the failed cells are stamped with #'s 290616 to 290620 (280616-20?) . Van 1st registered 04/2001 so looks like original pack(s?).

Paperwork when we bought this one showed that the first owner (A Scottish housing association) had to have it "recovered" and "recharged" on at least three occasions in close succession....

Expensive lesson learned here, the range / power of the van was as unfaltering prior to the "incident". If the eco light comes on suddenly with a high reported % left on the dial (in this case >90%) - tow it back and check the voltages on each pack. Especially tell swmbo that at the first sign of this to STOP give me a call and DO NOT decide to carry on home up that mile long several hundred foot climb as I suspect that may not have helped :roll: - interestingly had two failed attempts at a Maint Charge the week before - started but soon stopped.

Now I've got the pack down only two cells show any sign of life @ 6.39v and 6.49v - still in the tray but no evidence of physical damage to the four dead cells. Should have this one back on the road by the end of the week / as soon as I can borrow a neighbours pallet trolley again.

Sorry, carry on :wink:

Tim.

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:27 pm

Grumpy-b wrote: The filling line becomes a vent line so it must drain down (Mine certainly dont just stop after filling).


They are ?? I thought the vent was the outgoing side :? Mine certainly stop almost instantly once I with draw the filling nozzle off the plug, there might be an egg cup full come off the drain afterwards but thats about it.

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Grumpy-b
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby Grumpy-b » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:11 am

Yes the vent is the outgoing line but once the pressure is relieved on the bypass device the residual fluid must drain out of the system otherwise the first cell in the pack cant vent untill fluid drains into the cells. At the point where the water goes through and out of the vent when filling up, its just a direct circuit from fill to vent, so most of water will drain down from the filling circuit untill it gets stopped by the vacuum in the filler pipe. If water is left in the interconneting pipes it must fall back into the cells as the internal valve opens up over time. Or it gets blown out by venting.

Grumpy-b

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:08 am

Interesting, must admit on the cell I cut up I couldnt see any valve as such in the cell it seemed to opperate on a plain and simple water level type principle over cones type thing.

I can see that over time the water in the filling lines may drain down into the batteries but from experience when I dropped my packs for the change over there was still plenty of fluid in the fill lines :?

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Grumpy-b
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby Grumpy-b » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:45 am

I if the vehicles were left for days uncharged in seriously cold weather then perhaps something could freeze. All the pipes have a high rubber content and so can expand with no problem. Once the water is in the cells its electrolyte so probably has quite a low freezing point.
Personally I think that very little water stays in the feed pipes once the vehicle is in use. The main point of the closing valves a the front is to prevent dirt entering the circuit. If any gets up the vent end its likely to be washed out so its not really a problem having it open.
I always blow out my connectors before plugging the watering line on. Nothing serious just to get loose crud out the way.
These vehicles were designed for European use and they tend to get a lot more freezing conditions than us.



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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ecocars » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:06 am

Hi All ....I'm getting around to fixing the berlingo ...whats a 'good' voltage state of a reasonable 'saft' nicad ?...I'll get my garage to test all the cells ...and then look at replacing the duff ones ......

Please keep it simple for me ....as I'm no electric tecky !!

Ta

Jonathan :D
Ok update ....just seen my garage ..they state that the middle set are also shattered as well ...so that seals it ...its just not worth spending upwards of £2k to get it running with second hand nicads ..so its of to the auctions !!
shame as I really wanted to get it running again ...'saft' are missing a huge opportunity to sell new nicads ....ha ho !!

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby ChrisB » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:43 pm

Oh dear thats not good :(

I'm surprised they are ALL gone, generally one or two will go pop (although the it has been found that once one goes then others follow later, once you've replaced the duffers) but once one or two die it normally makes the van un-drivable and you have to replace those before you can even start driving it again.

I had one die, which I replaced and then another two went and then the range dropped to just a couple of miles with damaged cells which made it pointless to drive.

If you do move it on you may get a better price by breaking it or strip all the goodies off it and hang on to any good batteries (anything above 6volts is generally good) and then you'll have a bucket loads of spares for another one :wink:

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Flying John
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Re: berlingo E500 nicads

Postby Flying John » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:20 pm

I think with all this talk of batterys going I ought to get a couple of spare ones in stock for when the inevitable happens.

Anyone got a couple for sale, Chris, Andrew ?

John


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