battery replacements on berlingo

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harry morris
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Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:24 pm
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battery replacements on berlingo

Postby harry morris » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:25 pm

Hello everyone, I recently purchased a BLINGO van year 2002 with 23000 on the clock with known battery problems, the label on the battery boxes shows 08/04/2001 the van is in superb condition and well worth the work that followed, I started with the dreaded centre pack of batteries and drop tested every battery in the pack, all the cells were fine except for TWO "G" cells which were well below par at 3 volts and these were replaced with two really good cells obtained from our good friend in POLAND.
After double checking and then double checking everything again I reassembled the pack quite happy with the 70 odd volts from the pack, I then carried out a MAINTENANCE charge and topped up all the batteries with distilled water, a road test the following day returned a disappointing 25 miles with 65% charge remaining and the charge light on on the econoscope.
So, the rear pack was removed, (a lot easier than the centre pack) and found ALL the cells to be fine and well up to scratch!
Then the lower front pack was dismantled in the same way and hear we find ONE "D" cell well below par at 3.3 volts, this was replaced with another really good one, another MAINTENANCE charge was carried out and the cells watered again.
Another road test followed with a slight improvement at 32 miles of gentle driving with the charge light on again at 50% !!! today I dismantle and test the top battery box and find ALL the cells to be well up to scratch at over 26 volts !!!
So gents what have I missed? will some regular normal charging bring this vehicle up to scratch ? my other (shiny) red van has 10 year old batteries and has no problem returning over 40 miles on a charge, any one got any ideas ? cheers HARRY MORRIS

Grumpy-b
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Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby Grumpy-b » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:25 am

Just doing a simple voltage check isnt enough. You have to put the cells under load.
So do a run get the controller to get the Eco light up. Run it a bit further then quickly do pack voltages. ie take the cover off the controller beforehand(saves time and time is really important here) . Measure the pack voltage, then top, then rear then middle, before they get time to recover by any significant amount. Do the maths to work out the front lower pack voltage, then do the maths to work out the average cell voltage in each pack. This will show up the weakest pack. But this all must be done quickly before the cells start to recover.
Strip that pack off the car and expose its inner workings.
I always check the cells with some load, and the simplest is an old 12v starter motor that will give about 40 to 60 amps load, take individual cell voltages before load, then during load, watch how the voltage sags, quickly at first then slows down take the point at which the voltage is stable for a couple of seconds and then will slowly continue to drop. Then let them recover for say 20 seconds and re measure. If they dont recover to a reasonable amount near to the original voltage, they will be suspect, if then went really low then , suspect. Its no point in giving definitive voltages as it will depend upon how low the pack is at the time. But at least you will have worked out which the worst is.

Grumpy-b

highend
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:43 pm
Location: Poland
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Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby highend » Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

so Harry you bought it from that man in Newcastle Upon-Tyne? :)
probably you need to remove middle pack (11pcs) and there will be two or three cells need replacing.
go get a pallet truck and removing middle pack will be around one hour (or less), don't forget brake lines to be removed, also secure van from moving as there will be no handbrakes ;)
good luck :)
also put in middle pack best cells you have to not have to remove it again.

I know some Germans, and they do measure each block for capacity. Best nicads have around 110Ah (which is even over specification which says 100Ah). It is long time process but worth doing. If you measure capacity of all 27 blocks and if all will be over 100Ah, then van will go over 60 miles on single charge.

harry morris
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Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby harry morris » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:12 pm

Well thank's GRUMPY/HYEND for your helpful replies, I spent quite a lot of time and effort testing the dreaded centre pack with it's 11 batteries.
I tested each and every battery by firstly SHORTING each one with what I thought was quite a reasonable load of 100 amps for 30 seconds and then test the voltage with my megga and with the exception of TWO cells they all read 7 volts so I am reluctant to take this pack apart again.
I took the van out again and deliberately hammered the batteries until the eko light appeared at 33 miles but this time I left the eVlite connected so I could watch the voltage sag and sure enough the voltage was all over the place, before the eco light appeared going down to 137 volts and then with gentle throttle back up to 155 volts, obviously I am missing something here, any other suggestions gents please, cheers HARRY MORRIS

berlingoian
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:00 am

Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby berlingoian » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:05 pm

How's it going now, Harry?
I'm having similar probs and a few steps behind ;-)

harry morris
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:24 pm
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Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby harry morris » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:36 pm

berlingoian wrote:How's it going now, Harry?
I'm having similar probs and a few steps behind ;-)

Well I have to admit I have taken this van off the road at present due to lack of time etc.
It definitely has battery problems am certain there is a short somewhere in one of the packs but I don't know where, I charged it up a week ago and within half an hour it was fully charged 100% the volt meter read 185 volts at the controller terminals.
Took the aux battery out and fully charged that and then shorted it out with a load and tried to flatten it, no problem with that it's. Spot on.
Took another voltage reading a couple of hours later now down to 161 volts great and that's without even moving following day 143 volts now reading 109 volts sat 15th march.
So a short somewhere !!! Not to worry our POLISH friend HYEND can sort us out with super used cells and we can sort this problem out I just don't want to have to do that dreaded centre pack again, cheers HARR

berlingoian
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Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby berlingoian » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:29 pm

Yeah, certainly a challenge.
My feature is that the eco light comes on when fully charged.my rang is 100 yards. Total voltage is right up there, central pack is lowest and upon inspection there is leakage.
Nearly got it out.
How do I remove fuse holder/cabkes?

harry morris
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:24 pm
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Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby harry morris » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:16 pm

berlingoian wrote:Yeah, certainly a challenge.
My feature is that the eco light comes on when fully charged.my rang is 100 yards. Total voltage is right up there, central pack is lowest and upon inspection there is leakage.
Nearly got it out.
How do I remove fuse holder/cabkes?

You need a long (THIN) TORX screwdriver, HOPE YOUVE PULLED THE TRACTION FUSES behind aux battery, the fuses on either side of the centre pack should also be removed and then remove the single torx screw on the heavy cable side of the fuse holders and pull the heavy cable out, there are a couple of cable tidy things that can be removed with a wide blade screwdriver, shove all the pipes and cables out of the way of the pack, the water pipes are kept in place with spring clips flat blade screwdriver job, DON'T LOOSE THE CLIPS.
And now get your thing in the centre of the pack jack it up and support it, the pack is bolted to the chassis with ( I THINK) 6 bolts i think 5 of them are torx bolts and one normal nut, MAKE SURE THE TORX BIT YOU USE FOR THESE BOLTS IS A REALLY TIGHT FIT, if you bugger any one of these you'll be there for ever drilling out etc, when your putting them back put copper grease on the threads ( for next time)
Go over this pack with a fine tooth comb follow GRUMPY'S advice to the letter HAMMER the battery's short the buggers out use an old starter motor if poss and check the plumbing with a fine tooth comb looking for squashed pipes blockages, best of luck, cheers HARRY.

berlingoian
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:00 am

Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby berlingoian » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:09 am

Thanks for those words of wisdom, Harry.
I took the rear pack out, had the top off and removed cables that way.
No sign of where torx head screw might be :-) and the bolts holding middle pack are 10mm hex on mine. All looks previously untouched, maybe mine is a newer version.
Right, back to it :-)

Grumpy-b
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: battery replacements on berlingo

Postby Grumpy-b » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:19 am

Pull out the fuse and you can see the screw inside the holder to the outside of the fuse blade holes its recessed in the holder. Rather than do this upside down, pull out the one behind the 12v battery and you can see there what you are looking at more easily, then armed with that knowledge get down and dirty.No They never used std bolts, only ever the Specially shaped heads. Yours have at some time been removed and replaced.

Grumpy-b


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